Most prominent Druze leader Walid Jumblatt warns about the
repercussions of the 18-month Syrian violence beyond its borders.
The war in Syria directly affects Lebanon. The two countries
have a long-standing relationship, throughout which Syria has been eager to
exercise control over Lebanon. In particular, the Syrian Baath regime sees
Lebanon as a small city of its own nation, and the internal conflicts in
Tripoli are linked to the developments in Syria.
Druze leader Walid Jumblatt, head of Lebanon’s Progressive
Socialist Party (PSP), is seen as key in the delicate political balance between
the two nations; his actions in relation to the subject have triggered serious
discussion.
He believes that Lebanon is in a state of despair, and that
the ongoing Syrian crisis will lead to the emergence of new political entities
in the region. But he dismisses any possibility that the tiny country could be
divided. Detailing Druze support for the uprising against the 12-year rule of
Syria’s President Bashar al-Assad, he says Druze members of the Syrian regime
are slowly abandoning the sinking ship.
On Israel, he claims, it will receive the greatest benefit
from the crisis. He believes the violence in Syria could be a golden
opportunity for Israel to expel Palestinians from Gaza to Jordan, clearing
Israel of Arabs while strengthening the foothold of Palestinians in Jordan.
Based on the clashes in Tripoli, we could say that
Lebanon is moving back towards the old days. Why is that?
The Syrian regime has its partners in the north of Lebanon.
One of them is Ali Eid, leader of the Alawites. He has Sunni and Shiite
partners as well. The people, on the other hand, extend support to the
resistance and uprising in Syria. Some people and parties want to make the
north of Lebanon involved in the ongoing controversy. We have to be alert to
make sure that we do not give them this pretext. By the clashes in the north of
Lebanon, we would justify an intervention by the [Bashar al] Assad regime in
the domestic affairs of Lebanon on the grounds of protecting his Alawite
supporters -- it is wise to refer to “some” of the Alawites, because the majority
of the Alawites do not support him. Lebanon has to be careful about this.
Do you think the Assad regime will successfully protect
its supporters?
The regime interferes with internal affairs, arguing that
its supporters in Lebanon are in great danger. Everybody is now aware how
insane Assad is. We all see what he has done in Aleppo, Hama and other parts of
Syria. There are 1.5 million homeless people in the country. The neighboring
countries host 500,000 Syrian refugees. Why should we give him a reason for
intervention in the domestic affairs of Lebanon?
Hezbollah says it is backing the Assad regime. Does this
lead to any problems in your relations with them?
We are not political partners; we are in the same
government. This was a necessary coalition due to the conditions in 2011. Back
then, there was no uprising in Syria. This is the subject matter that we cannot
agree on with Hezbollah. They support the Assad regime, but we are opposed to
it. That we are in the same government does not necessarily mean that we have
political agreement. We were forced to make a coalition government to address
potential internal problems in Lebanon.
Some claim that the West aims at dividing Lebanon into
cantons. Do you think that this is possible?
Lebanon will not be divided; it is not like Bosnia or other
similar countries. It is a tiny country. Religions and sects live together in
this country. Some right-wing groups sought to divide Lebanon in 1975 and 1976,
but they failed. The war lasted 17 years, but in the end there was no
partition.
What will happen to the Druze in Syria?
Things were bad for them at the beginning, but it is better
now. The Druze support the popular uprising in Syria. Nearly 10 high-level
military officers have left the army so far -- I cannot give any names due to
security concerns. The Druze are also active in Jordan, Paris and the Syrian
National Council [SNC]. Of course, more should be done, but we are trying to do
our best. Recently, a predominantly Druze city near Damascus was bombed. This is
tough, but the future of the Druze in Syria will be shared with the Muslims and
Arabs. There are 400,000 Druze in Syria and 170,000 in Lebanon. We are a
minority; there are 23 million people in Syria.
Do you support the Druze rebels in Syria?
I do not see the developments from a sectarian perspective.
We are in dialogue with all parties that are opposed to the Assad regime. We
supported the military officers in their decisions to leave the army. Some of
them are now in Turkey and some others will travel there.
Some reports claim that partition of Syria was discussed
in a summit in Shanghai chaired by Russia, which the US also attended. Can you
confirm this?
It is true. Under the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916, France
wanted to partition Syria to create an Alawite state in İskenderun,
a Damascus state, a Druze state and an Aleppo state. The Druze people opposed
this project and they prevented partition of the country. Now we are in 2012
and it is like we are back in 1916. The same scenario is being repeated; it
is like they have taken us back 100 years.
Today, Russia is playing increasingly big role in the
region amid escalating tensions in the region. What’s your take on that?
Russia is trying to recapture the glory of the Russia of the
tsar era. Russia, the US and Israel are making plans for the partition of
Syria, and maybe Turkey is included in this dangerous game. In addition to
Russia, Iran is also a rising power in the region. It tries to protect the
Assad regime, but once it realizes Assad will be gone it will be part of the
partition of Syria. Iran is supplying material aid and arms to the Assad
regime. It appears that Iran is in favor of the creation of an Alawite state.
And there is also an oil pipeline project between Basra and Tartus. In
addition, there are arms deals between Russia, Iran and [Iraqi Prime Minister
Nouri al] Maliki. All these plans and games are against the Syrian people.
How to you assess a possible Russia, Iran, Syria and
maybe China axis?
True. This is happening because of the power vacuum after
the American withdrawal from the region. The US has withdrawn from Afghanistan
and Iraq. For this reason, Russia and Iran are trying to fill the void.
Some argue that Russia and China will replace traditional
major powers in the upcoming decade. Do you agree with this prediction?
I do not want to think this big. What I know is what is
happening right now. Getting back to history, the Ottoman state made a lot of
war with Iran. Back then, the Turks were in Basra. Today, the Persian Empire
[Iran] is on the shores of Lebanon and within Lebanon; it is also in Syria.
This is the difference today.
It appears that the incidents in Syria will have
reflections and repercussions in Lebanon as well.
We are making efforts to ensure that the developments do not
affect Lebanon. We tell all the parties that we are all against the Syrian
regime and Assad, but that the fall of Assad cannot be performed in Tripoli. We
should not give him reason to interfere with the domestic affairs of our
country.
But how will you prevent this?
Who will fight against whom? Hezbollah is the greatest
military power in Lebanon. Nobody could fight against it. We wish for this
power to be acquired by the state someday. Lebanon is in a state of despair on
this matter right now.
What kind of map could be made of this region?
Due to the Russian and Iranian policies, as well as failure
to supply heavy weaponry to the rebels, the unity of Syria is in danger. We are
against direct intervention of the West in Syria, but we want arms supplied to
the rebels. Sadly, no step has been taken on this matter. Meetings of the
Friends of Syria have been held in Tunisia, Istanbul and Paris, but none of
them was successful. It is like the West is doing nothing in regards to the
ongoing massacre in Syria. They criticize Turkey, arguing that it is not taking
action to intervene. Turkey will not be able to do so unless a decision is
taken in the West. So far, the decision of the US has been in favor of
reluctance and indifference.
Why do you think the US has not been active on the Syrian
issue, considering that it tends to be active in every other matter?
There is only one reason: to make sure that subsequent
developments do not pose any danger vis-à-vis Israel. The only concern is to
protect Israel and its security. I am not sure of the Iranian policy on this
matter; there are some question marks. But Putin paid a visit to Israel. The
second most influential Jewish lobby is in Moscow. Putin must have assured
Israel that the recent developments in the region would not affect its
interests.
Will a greater Israeli state emerge out of this turmoil?
It seems remote for now. The only concern of the world now
is to protect Israel from chemical attacks and missiles. For this reason, there
are CIA officers in Jordan and special teams of Russia in Tartous. But this
will inevitably happen. Israel may tell its Arab citizens to go to their other
homeland, namely Jordan.
So you are saying that a Palestinian state will be
established in place of Jordan?
We are not in a position to make a decision on this matter.
Today, there is an extreme right party in power in Israel. And the attempts to
create two separate states have so far failed. For this reason, we should not
ignore the potential insane acts of the Israeli extremists. They may want to
send the Palestinians to Jordan. The population of the Palestinians has been on
the rise and this is creating a lot of pressure among the Jews in Israel. For
this reason, they may try this move.
A huge number of Palestinian refugees migrated from Syria
to Jordan, and 60 percent of the Jordanian population is of Palestinian origin.
Does this not automatically ‘Palestinize’ Jordan?
You are right. But it is necessary that all this happens
now. Israel may take lessons from what happens in Syria. What is happening in
Syria now? 1.5 million people are homeless in Syria and 500,000 Syrians are refugees.
Israel may learn lessons from this and send the Palestinians in Gaza to Jordan.
This is consistent with the old and new projects of Israel anyway. And that
project is creation of a non-Arab Israeli state.
How do you see the power struggle between Turkey and
Iran?
Turkey needs to be careful about this. The foreign policy of
Russia and Iran poses danger for Syria and Turkey. The greatest issue in Turkey
is the Kurdish problem. This problem should be addressed within the unity of
Turkey. Otherwise, it will remain a bleeding wound.
Could Turkey stand against Iran, if it resolves its
Kurdish issue?
I do not think a conventional war will break out between the
two countries. If you are referring to a cold war, I have no idea about it. I
believe that there is a cold war in economic interests. In fact, the only issue
that needs to be resolved is the Kurdish issue, because Syria and Iran use the
Kurdish card against Turkey. I do not want to say that they are using the
Kurds; but Turkey needs to resolve its Kurdish issue.
The relations between Turkey and President of the Iraqi
Kurdistan region Massoud Barzani are firm; could this be influential?
This is a positive development and it will help. But one
problem remains, and this is the PKK issue. This needs to be resolved. I
believe that Turkey should take measures to recognize the social, cultural and
ethnic rights of the Kurds in Turkey. Some still approach the Kurdish issue
from a Kemalist perspective. And this is wrong because there is plurality in
Turkey and it is an asset for the country.
What is the size of the Druze population in the Middle
East? Do you have contact with all of them?
I am an Arab, and I told you I support the Syrian people.
There are Druze people who support the Syrian regime; on the other hand, there
are Druze people in Israel, but we have no connection with them. At the same
time, there are Druze people against the Jews in Israel. We are in touch with
them and we support them. This is not about the Druze people; it is about
homeland.
